Running Rune on RPI3 - but no upnp client option

ttarpd

Hi

I'm new to the world of the Raspberry Pi having just got my RPI3 today.

I want to use it as a UPNP client to play music via a USB port on the RPI3 into my DAC.

I have installed RuneAudio on the RPI3, and also the Android control app.

I have a working UPNP / DLNA music server (Asset running on a QNAP NAS drive) that is working fine.

The RPI3 has a wired connection to my home network.
Before installing RuneAudio I did install Raspbian and the RPI3 can "see" the UPNP server. I installed Kodi on Raspbian and it could play music from the UPNP server fine.

But I wanted to use RuneAudio since the RPI3 will be a dedicated music client feeding my DAC.

However - I can't see anywhere in RuneAudio to configure access to a UPNP server. It only seems to be talking about USB drives or network mounts. Can RuneAudio play music as a UPNP client please?

Regards,
David

tboooe

I use RuneAudio and Pi3 as a renderer on my network getting music served to it from Minimserver.

Under RuneAudio settings have you turned on UPnP/DLNA? Once you do, RuneAudio should be visible on your network.

ttarpd

I have UPnP / DLNA turned ON in Settings.

I can see the RuneAudioUPnP source on my laptop when I browse my network.
If I double click on RuneAudioUPnP on my laptop it opens a browser and shows the following message:

Hi, this is the default upmpdcli presentation page and it is not very interesting.

You can substitute another one by setting the presentationhtml parameter inside the configuration file, but in any case this can only be a static help page, it is only read when upmpdcli starts up.

Is this "normal"? Does this mean RuneAudio is acting correctly as an MPD client and should be able to play music from my existing Asset UPnP / DLNA server?

In the RuneAudio android app I'm using to control the RPI3 I can't see anywhere where I can browse a UPnP / DLNA music source.
Where should I see it please?

ttarpd

If I go to http://runeaudio/ in a browser on my laptop I can see the RuneAudio UI.

Underneath [no artist] [no title] [no album] I can click on "MPD Empty queue, add some music!" to change source.

This shows 4 options - MPD / Spotify / Airplay / DLNA. Only MPD and Spotify get highlighted as I move the mouse over them.

In settings I have only UPnP / DLNA "On". Spotify and Airplay are "Off".

In Library I can see the following:

Network mounts (0)
USB storage (0)
My webradios (0)
Spotify
Dirble (null)
Jamendo
Albums
Artists
Genres

I must be missing something obvious.... any other suggestions please?

hondagx35

Hi ttarpd,

I must be missing something obvious....

Yes, you missed to read the docs.
RuneAudio is mainly a MPD client.
It can play Webradio and Music from network shares.
It also can act as a UPnP / DLNA renderer (DMR) but is not a DMC!

Home Network Devices

Digital Media Server (DMS): store content and make it available to networked digital media players (DMP) and digital media renderers (DMR). Examples include PCs and network-attached storage (NAS) devices.
Digital Media Player (DMP): find content on digital media servers (DMS) and provide playback and rendering capabilities. Examples include TVs, stereos and home theaters, wireless monitors and game consoles.
Digital Media Renderer (DMR): play content as instructed by a digital media controller (DMC), which will find content from a digital media server (DMS). Examples include TVs, audio/video receivers, video displays and remote speakers for music. It is possible for a single device (e.g. TV, A/V receiver, etc.) to function both as a DMR (receives "pushed" content from DMS) and DMP ("pulls" content from DMS)
Digital Media Controller (DMC): find content on digital media servers (DMS) and instruct digital media renderers (DMR) to play the content. Content doesn't stream from or through the DMC. Examples include tablet computers, Wi-Fi enabled digital cameras and smartphones.
Generally, digital media players (DMP) and digital media controllers (DMC) with print capability can print to DMPr. Examples include networked photo printers and networked all-in-one printers

Frank

ttarpd

From what you say then - RuneAudio is not the right solution for me if I want to get my RPI3 to play music getting served from my existing DMS.

But if I could mount the music folder on the NAS drive then I could use RuneAudio to play this files directly. Right?

So - I'm trying to mount my music folder on the NAS drive - but it's not quite working.
I tried via the RuneAudio UI - but was just getting errors.

So I've SSH connected onto the RPI3 runing RuneAudio and logged in as root.

I've created a new folder under NAS:
/mnt/MPD/NAS/QNAP

and mounted my NAS music folder to it.

From the command line I can see all the sub folders of music in this folder. I can read the files of music on the NAS drive.

However in RuneAudio UI when I go to my Library I can see:

Network Mounts (1)

But when I click on it I just see the NAS folder icon in the bottom left hand corner. No sub-folders, or files.

I also tried this without creating a new QNAP sub folder under /mnt/MPD/NAS/, and just mounting the NAS music share to that folder.
In Library it then tells me I have 18 Network Mounts - but if I click on it I see the same NAS folder icon in the bottom left hand corner. No sub-folders, or files.

When you said:

Yes, you missed to read the docs.

Please forgive my ignorance - but which doc(s) exactly have this information in please?
I can follow instructions - but I'm struggling to get this working in the dark....

hondagx35

Hi ttarpd,

Please forgive my ignorance - but which doc(s) exactly have this information in please?

http://www.runeaudio.com/about/
http://www.runeaudio.com/documentation/
http://www.runeaudio.com/documentation/runeui/sources/
+
searching the forum

But when I click on it I just see the NAS folder icon in the bottom left hand corner. No sub-folders, or files.

MPD has to scan / index your files first. (See sources page "REBUILD MPD LIBRARY")

So - I'm trying to mount my music folder on the NAS drive - but it's not quite working.
I tried via the RuneAudio UI - but was just getting errors.

Without knowing the errors it is hard to help.

Please post your manual mount command and i will tell you what to enter in the UI.

Frank

tboooe

ttarpd wroteFrom what you say then - RuneAudio is not the right solution for me if I want to get my RPI3 to play music getting served from my existing DMS.

.

If you only want to use your Pi3 as a renderer than RuneAudio is great for this. Install a control point, something like BubbleUpnP or Linn Kazoo on your phone or tablet. From these control points you can select your server (QNAP) and your renderer (RuneAudio).

ttarpd

Frank - thanks for trying to help. However I must admit to being a little frustrated by your response to my request for specific / exact information.

http://www.runeaudio.com/about/

This page has no references that I can see to the DLNA Certified Device Classes that you previously quoted.
Wikipedia seems to provide more insight:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

http://www.runeaudio.com/documentation/

Whilst I admit that I might not have read every page in here - and I might not have followed every last link. I have read a chunk of these pages - and I can't find any references to DLNA Certified Device Classes.

Nor in this page either:

http://www.runeaudio.com/documentation/runeui/sources/

searching the forum

I did try to search the forum - an d I apologise if I have missed another thread / post that dealt with this topic and provided the insight / answers I needed. UPnP / DLNA / Raspberry PI are commonly referred to items that yield a lot of hits.

MPD has to scan / index your files first. (See sources page "REBUILD MPD LIBRARY")

I had hit the "REBUILD MPD LIBRARY" button but it didn't appear to do anything or change the results I was seeing.

Without knowing the errors it is hard to help.

Unfortunately I wasn't getting any specific error codes or messages from RuneUI. Simply a red cross next to the network mount after I'd saved the configuration. I took the red cross and lack of visible signs of access to mean that it hadn't mounted the network share.

So far your input has been what I can only politely describe at best as "unhelpful".

Thank you, tboooe. This hit the nail on the head and explained everything in a single sentence!

If you only want to use your Pi3 as a renderer than RuneAudio is great for this. Install a control point, something like BubbleUpnP or Linn Kazoo on your phone or tablet. From these control points you can select your server (QNAP) and your renderer (RuneAudio).

I'm happy to say that both BubbleUPnP on my android phone and Linn Kazoo on my ipad are controlling the server and renderer.

A diagram explaining this simple relationship including the DLNA Certified Device Classes would be really useful for other people looking for this information I imagine.

Thanks for the help.
Kind regards,
David

tboooe

Glad it worked for you David! With all the acronyms things can definitely get confusing.

So are you considering using the Pi3 with something like a Digi+? I am currently trying to see if my Pi3 and Digi+ acting as a renderer on my network sounds better than my fully tricked out PC.

hondagx35

Hi David,

Frank - thanks for trying to help. However I must admit to being a little frustrated by your response to my request for specific / exact information.

So far your input has been what I can only politely describe at best as "unhelpful".

Sorry, but i'm also sometimes frustrated.

I had hit the "REBUILD MPD LIBRARY" button but it didn't appear to do anything or change the results I was seeing.

This is most likely a permission issue.

Unfortunately I wasn't getting any specific error codes or messages from RuneUI. Simply a red cross next to the network mount after I'd saved the configuration.

You have to click on the mount with the red cross and you will get the error message.

hondagx35 wrotePlease post your manual mount command and i will tell you what to enter in the UI.

If you like to use RuneAudio as media player (what is its main purpose) please answer this question.

Frank

ttarpd

There's a lot of kit / software / material all changing rapidly at the moment - which is exciting!
But it's hard to keep up and find what's relevant for the RPi3 in amongst it all. So really appreciate your input - it's saved me hours of agony!

So are you considering using the Pi3 with something like a Digi+? I am currently trying to see if my Pi3 and Digi+ acting as a renderer on my network sounds better than my fully tricked out PC.

I actually just ordered a Digi+ this afternoon!

I went for the version with a transformer.

I have a portable USB DAC (a Chord Mojo) and the RPi3 sounds very good through it.
But I have a Naim DAC in my main hifi that I want to use the RPi3 with and that doesn't accept USB inputs apart from coming from an Apple device. So I needed to order something like the Digi+ to get an S/PDIF output. But I wanted to get the RPi3 working first of all just to make sure I wasn't wasting my time. I'm really pleased with it so far. And I imagine the software will only stabilise and get better as more options become available.

ttarpd

Hi Frank

hondagx35 wroteIf you like to use RuneAudio as media player (what is its main purpose) please answer this question.

Earlier on I was trying to mount my NAS share using a specific user. And I got RuneAudio to mount it from the command line after SSH'ing onto the RPi3.

Once I understood what was going on and got RuneAudio acting as a UPnP renderer only with a separate UPnP client controlling the UPnP server - I turned NFS off on the NAS drive. I didn't need it for anything else in my home network.

I've just tried it again - but this time enabling a read only guest account on the NAS drive share in the NFS settings. And now in the RuneAudio UI I have successfully added the Network Mount and I can see music in the Library. So that feature is working correctly. Perhaps I was doing something wrong on earlier.

Thank you.

hondagx35

Hi David,

great to hear that it works now.

Have fun with your setup.

Frank

ttarpd

hondagx35 wroteHi David,

great to hear that it works now.

Have fun with your setup.

Frank

Thanks, Frank.

Sorry for having a bit of a rant yesterday. Tough week at work - and then a steep learning curve with new Raspberry Pi 3 and RuneAudio.
Now that the music is playing again - everything's right in the world.

Kind regards,
David

tboooe

ttarpd wrote
I actually just ordered a Digi+ this afternoon!

I went for the version with a transformer.

I also got the transformer version. Though it sounds good I still think the music is bit too "warm" for my tastes. I am about to get a prototype of a new product that is similar to the Digi+ but with better clocks, power supply, and ability to completely power it separately from the Pi3. I am hopeful this sounds better than the Digi+.

Another idea I am tossing around is getting an Up Board which would allow me to run Windows and thus more closely replicate my current setup with all the various software optimizations I have but of course in a much smaller package, consuming a lot less power.

ttarpd

tboooe wroteI also got the transformer version. Though it sounds good I still think the music is bit too "warm" for my tastes. I am about to get a prototype of a new product that is similar to the Digi+ but with better clocks, power supply, and ability to completely power it separately from the Pi3. I am hopeful this sounds better than the Digi+.

What are you running the Digi+ into at the moment? Which DAC do you use?

I've been comparing the USB audio from the RPi3 / RuneAudio into my Chord Mojo against an S/PDIF output from a Naim UnitiQute2 into my Chord Mojo. The sound is every slightly different I find. Both have plenty of detail, smooth top end, tight bass, good transients etc. However there is a subtle difference. I would say the S/PDIF output from the Naim device has an ever so slightly crisper edge to it. Although it's very subtle. I'm looking forward to trying the Digi+ board to see how that changes things. And it will also allow me to compare the RPi3 / RuneAudio S/PDIF output against the Naim UnitiQute2 S/PDIF output into my main hifi (through a Naim DAC). Which will be very interesting indeed.

tboooe wroteAnother idea I am tossing around is getting an Up Board which would allow me to run Windows and thus more closely replicate my current setup with all the various software optimizations I have but of course in a much smaller package, consuming a lot less power.

Have you tried the Windows 10 IoT Core on the RPi3?

PeteB

Ooops....edit:

tboooe wroteI also got the transformer version. Though it sounds good I still think the music is bit too "warm" for my tastes. ...

LOL. I would probably like it. (I am still using my father's old amplifier with some almost as old NAD gear at home...

Seriously, I am surprised to read that. I have the DIGI+/transformer, and when tested under ideal conditions (at a friend;s house) with a good DAC, it sounded pretty neutral, sort-of like studio recording gear does to my ears. W. Sennheiser headphones, too bright for my taste. With my own budget AKG cans, and the same DAC, better (to my ears), at least with normal recorded music.

ACX

ttarpd wroteA diagram explaining this simple relationship including the DLNA Certified Device Classes would be really useful for other people looking for this information I imagine.

Hi ttarpd, take a look at upmpdcli's website (which is the renderer currently implemented in RuneAudio). The diagram in that page should be helpful.

ttarpd

ACX wroteHi ttarpd, take a look at upmpdcli's website (which is the renderer currently implemented in RuneAudio). The diagram in that page should be helpful.

Thank you!

I must once again apologise. I was a complete noob and (rather embarassingly) rushed into the forum like a bull in a china shop.
I saw this page the other day after spending more time researching.
So far I'm really impressed with RuneAudio. And I haven't added the Digi+ board or a high quality power supply yet.

Keep up the great work!