USB Install

[Peter]

Is it possible to install RuneAudio to a USB flash drive (maybe retaining boot partition on SD card)?

USB install on a USB 3 flash drive is faster, more responsive, and eliminates (in my experience) any random stuttering which might occur, with other applications I use. It also reduces SD card wear.

I of course realise the pi is only USB 2, but I figure a USB 3 drive will perform better as there is more headroom, and will run faster than a standard USB 2 drive.

[johnbanks]

That's exactly what I do - RPi+Wolfson+0.3 alpha.
Here's an extract from the build notes I keep for my benefit ...
==============================
Avoiding SDHC corruption (and possibly speed up)
Use Paragon to assign a Drive letter to the first FAT partition of the SDHC (may already have one). Make Paragon master archive backups of the whole SDHC and of the first & second partitions separately.
On SDHC – change cmdline_wosa.txt to ~~~~ root=/dev/sda2 ~~~~
Use Paragon to restore the second SDHC partition backup to the second partition of the USB stick.
(It is possible to delete all but the first FAT partition on the SDHC)
Fire up again – RuneAudio now boots from the SDHC but runs from the second partition of the USB stick
====================
I use Paragon Hard Disk Manager on my Windows PC when 'playing around' on this project.
My first USB contains music but that's incidental.
Hope this helps

[Midnight]

It also reduces SD card wear.

But increases your USB flash drive wear?

[Peter]

But increases your USB flash drive wear?

1) USB storage is cheaper (at least where I am);
2) Speed (and therefor performance) is improved;
3) Keep configuration data at upgrade;
4) Using a larger USB drive increases life as there is more write surface.
These are the reasons I want USB, particularly 2)

Thanks johnbanks, I will try your solution. There are other solutions I have tried with Debian based systems, but Arch????

[cmh714]

I like some of those advantages and may need to give it a try. I got 4 8GB Kingston cards on Amazon a few weeks ago they were $5 each.

[skrodahl]

@johnbanks: Thanks for sharing your solution, I'm sure it will be useful for others reading this forum.

@Peter: I do understand your reasons for wanting to do this. But wouldn't it actually decrease performance? The USB ports on the Raspberry Pi, which sit on the same bus as the ethernet port, don't exactly have a reputation for being fast.

A USB-stick, together with the SD card, may take some of the load off the SD card. That load is very minimal, and I'm not certain that it would be enough to increase the performance. Moving the swap partition may be an option, but that's hardly used at all for most profiles.

Depending on the size of your music library, you can place your music on the USB. It's normally mounted read-only, and writes are not a problem.

This is just me theorizing, though... I would love to hear about your findings, especially regarding performance.

[Peter]

@skrodahl: I can only speak from personal experience, and empirical evidence - I have no scientific or measured data to provide. When installing RaspBMC one is given the option to install to USB, which I have always done, having read on their forums, and in other places that USB improves performance. I have always had flawless wireless HD video (including large .mkv files which can be a challenge), and wireless audio playback at up to 24/192.

A couple of months ago I moved my pi to a new enclosure, and dispensed with the USB flash drive in favour of a straight SD install (8GB Class 10). Immediately I started experiencing stuttering and pausing of video and audio streams. this via HDMI to Yamaha RX-V671. Unsure of the reason, I swapped power supply (no change), wireless for wired connection to a DD-WRT bridge, then tried another wireless N300, Gigabit LAN DD-WRT router. None of this worked - then a brain flash!!! Reinstalled on a USB3 flash drive and no more issues.

I had virtually the same experience on a second pi, using both Raspbmc, Volumio and RuneAudio (albeit to a lesser extent with Volumio and RuneAudio). Problem went away with both Raspbmc and Volumio when install was moved to USB3 flash drive. I still have issues with 24/192 files in RuneAudio stuttering, both on a model B with USB to S/PDIF converter with external DAC (to vintage Technics amp), and via I2S DAC to Technics, and to TPA3116 amp.

Further experimenting with a B+ pi has proved to deliver the same improvements.

All that is left on the SD card is the boot partition, with the OS moved to the USB drive - at least I think that is how it works!

I made comment early in the alpha 0.3 thread of pausing and stuttering issues, and I now think the USB solution might just fix this.

Conclusion: The learnings I have found in various forums are correct - USB does, for some reason unknown to me, improve performance. There seem to be lots of clever people out there who can explain why, I just know my experience has proved it to be so. I also only use USB3 flash drives (16GB) (at a cost of NZ$ 9 each), as I figure maximum data transfer rates for the USB2 interface of the pi will be comfortably within the abilities of the USB3 standard, rather than testing the max(?) of a USB2 drive. I have always only used SD cards, and USB flash drives of brands I deem to be decent, from reputable dealers.

Peter

[skrodahl]

Thanks for sharing your experience Peter, a very interesting read indeed.

As you've stated that performance improvement is the biggest reason for switching to an USB stick, I can just share my experience with SD. The performance is simply great, when using an I2S (HifiBerry DAC in my case) DAC.

I'm using an adapter to fit a micro-SD card flush with the Raspberry Pi board, and SanDisk cards all the way. I've posted more detailed information about the performance in this thread.

[Peter]

@skrodahl: Yip, thank you I did read your comments and I agree completely. I do, still, however, prefer a USB install!!

In the beginning, a long, long time ago, before Raspify (I think), I bought a Raspberry Pi, and installed Raspbmc in frustration with my Philips HMP5000/79, and my WD media player. I have never looked back, and I enjoy fiddling (in an economically "responsible" kind of way) which you must have realised by now . I have even achieved WAF with implementation of RuneAudio, and Raspbmc which I think is a monumental achievement!

The pi is probably not any good (USB; ram; processor) according to users of other platforms, but I like it and I am constantly looking for tweaks to improve my experience. USB install is just one of these tweaks, which I find works. I also generally use Sandisk SD cards (full size on model B & micro on B+), and Apacer or Sandisk USB flash drives.

I notice Hifiberry have changed their chip to the PCM5122, and wonder what the improvement will be. I am currently using the PiCobber which is almost the same as the Hifiberry, and uses the PCM5102 chip with which I am quite happy. Still, I would like to try the IQAudio PiDac though.

To get back to the plea in the beginning, any guidance as to how to implement USB install greatly appreciated by me, and I am sure others.

As an aside (I should and will put this in the other thread), has your Audiobah board arrived? I ordered a Sure board, and am waiting.

@johnbanks: Have you also noticed the improvements in performance? You comments would be greatly appreciated.

Peter

[johnbanks]

Hi guys ...
In my early days playing around with RPi I had a lot of SDHC corruption. And there was a lot of stuff on the RPi forums about SDHC corruption being caused by overclocking (now claimed to be fixed) and marginal/poor quality power supplies.
As I always overclock to the max as a matter of course - a long time ago I started running my systems (mainly OpenElec) from USB and just boot from SDHC.

I tried various SDHC cards & USB sticks and tested them with CrystalDiskMark reading/writing 512K block size.

My best SDHC is a SanDisk 8GB Extreme PRO Class 10 which cost 15 UK pounds. It reads @ 18.21 MBps and writes @ 7.42 MBps. The product brochure mentions wear levelling.

A more mid range SDHC is my SanDisk 8GB Ultra Class 10 which cost 7.50 UK pounds. It reads @ 18.09 MBps and writes @ 2.59 MBps. The product brochure DOES NOT mention wear levelling.

Googling suggests to me that mid range SDHC’s will have no or just rudimentary wear levelling whereas USB sticks have a more advanced version but not as sophisticated as SSD’s.

So currently I boot 0.3 alpha from a Kingston 4GB Class 4 which cost 4 UK pounds and which reads @ 10.7 MBps and writes @ 0.76 MBps which is irrelevant as it’s just reading to boot.
And my 0.3 alpha runs from a partition on a SanDisk 8 GB Cruzer Fit USB which cost 6 UK pounds. It reads @ 23.0 MBps and writes @ 2.72 MBps.

A USB 3.0 stick may perform even better albeit that RPi is USB 2.0. I have yet to try that.

Clearly the above refers to corruption. On the performance side - initially I had a fair bit of stuttering but eventually tracked this down to a not to good wireless feed from my NAS. From the outset, I don’t ever recall having stuttering when playing HD audio tracks from another partition on my USB stick. So based on my experience, I cannot definitively comment on stuttering and SDHC versus USB.

Bottom line – my RPi+Wolfson+0.3 alpha is running great.

Hats off to the RuneAudio guys.

I’ve sent them a donation and encourage all you others to do the same.